new Zvezda Napoleonics?

[Ochoin]

Looks interesting:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f29gzlo0q5iyw ... s_2014.pdf


donald

[Emperor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFloZbT99oE

[Zed1]

More Russians and more Frenchies. Well. Not what I think what's really needed in the world of 1/72 napoleonics - no matter how well-made they may be.

And as the product picture of those Russian foot soldiers suggests, we will - once again - be flooded with the same old stupid fire-march-reload poses. Which makes me fear that the new cavalry sets (now how many sets of French dragoons do we already have on the market?) will also bring us the same old shit again: full charge poses all over the place. Boring.

Nevertheless - all what we have are catalogue pictures. Let's hope that the real McCoy will be of real interest.

...and then, next year or so HaT will probably release their new French and Russian infantry. Hey - celebrate, guys, we'll have EVEN MUCH MORE stupid fire-march-reload poses available on the market!

[Ochoin]

Personally, I'm very much looking forward to the HaT MAC Russians. There's simply not enough 1812 Russian infantry in the market.

I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean by " stupid fire-march-reload poses ".

donald

[Emperor]

@Zed well I am glad they produce something about Napoleon era...There are enough other sets on market...
Also Zvezda is Russian company, they are oriented in Napoleon 1812 Russian campaign...It is hard they will produce set for Waterloo, Spain or War of 1812...

[Zed1]

@ochoin:
I mean that you most times have simply that: one example of a soldier ramming a bullet into their muskets, a row of marching soldiers (1-3 different poses) and one or two soldiers aiming/firing.
You seldomly have a figure grabbing into the ammo pouch. Even more seldom you have anything else like soldiers on guard, in advance or even in close combat.

Standing soldiers? Resting soldiers? Enough poses to create a square? Hard to find, especially in plastic.
But as long as most wargamers just require those three poses, everybody makes them. For me, it's boring.

@Emperor:
Well - I agree that there's one line infantry set missing plus a full range of militia (the HaT set only provides 1-3 figures per regiment and is therefore pretty useless). Regarding to Zvezda, the main lack is in the cavalry segment (mounted Jager, Uhlans, etc.). Even a good set of Russian staff officers is still missing. And no, the Italeri set does not count (ugly, ugly, ugly).
But French infantry? Hell - how much of these do we really need?
Even the 1812-1814 campaign offers a wider range of armies for which figures would be needed (note that Napoleons invasion army of 1812 contained troops of various nations).

[Ochoin]

@ Zed

It's a matter of taste, I guess. As a wargamer I like a certain amount of formulaic regularity: especially with heavily drilled troops such as you find in Horse & Musket armies.

For variety, Ancient barbarian armies & non-drilled forces need a range of figures as different as you can get them. WW2 & Colonial natives also fit into this category. Entire units of troops standing, marching or firing suit me just fine.

I am very keen to game large battles from the 1812 Campaign. As you noted, not much is needed for the French (I have a Polish Corps & a Confederation of the Rhine Corps. An Italian Corps is clearly possible) but again, as you noted, the Russians are lacking several key troop types. I'd have to say decent Line infantry are the chief hole. Until someone produces more sets, I am stymied.

donald

[MicroWorld]

It's already not a news. REAL news: Napolenics delayed, WW1 - cancelled.
Quote from the manager of the company:
"Game "World War One" and a mini-sets for it will not be released (at least the next year). "Borodino" and mini-kits to it will be; when - I can not say now. But not this year." (Zvezda'z forum in Russian - http://www.zvezda.org.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2581&start=123)

[Zed1]

At least regarding cavalry, this here could be a good alternative:
http://www.schmaeling.de/napoleonische-epoche/russen/russen.php

[Emperor]

@Zed1 yes BUT you don't count on one thing...Making sculpted figures to make one set is very expensive...
They must pay at least thousands of euros for one set...Also I talked with some guys, they said that Italeri and Zvezda are reducing theirs sets because of lack of interest...It is sad to hear that...Also the economic crisis from 2008 has made its impact on every specter of life, even modeling...
So they produce what they think will sell on most...Also look at this thing, every modeling company of 1 72 figures lack most of periods...I myself would love to see some tricorn Austrian infantry of Eugen of Savoy, but there is none...Also Russians of Catherine the Great are lacking, French Revolution is lacking, Napoleon Turks are lacking and not to mention that there never will be produced sets about smaller countries...
Mostly it is Napoleon wars, ACW, WW2 Middle ages, Romans etc etc...Because they must satisfy big market...

[Zed1]

...which is the chance for smaller prouducers - especially of metal figures - that can fill these gaps with a in relation much smaller budget. Schilling, Schmaeling, Franznap - just to name a few. The only thing about it is the fact that their figures are more expensive then the plastic ones.

But Ochoin mentioned the most important point - it's the question what you're looking for. I can easily fill the ranks of a wargaming army with plastic figures. For my Westphalian diorama, which shows a mixture of moving and waiting soldiers, I had to fall back to metal figures.

[Emperor]

Well you know country in transition...Hard to afford to buy expensive figures...I myself would love to have some of Schilings figures or Franznap, since I saw how nice they are, but I don't know how to buy it...Here at my place it is small market, and people are mostly interested into planes and tanks... Pay pal is too expensive
So plastic comes in handy, it is cheaper than metal so people here buy only plastic...I even heard the guy who has main store in Belgrad that he is not going to buy even Italeri, since he has no profit...
Now don't get me wrong, I am just pointing out how is here at my place...I need to do some things to modify about house...Also I came to Benno's figures to learn from others so that I can improve interest in figures here at my place...

[Ochoin]

..I need to do some things to modify about house...Also I came to Benno's figures to learn from others so that I can improve interest in figures here at my place...

If I was trying to set up a figure business, I'd establish links with local wargames' clubs.
We actually still have a thriving hobby store in this city, partly because the wargamers tell the owner what they want. For example, Caesar plastics were added to the inventory for this reason & advice is given on how many boxes to buy (the owner had no concept that a wargamer might buy 10 boxes of a single, needed set).

No offence to diorama makers but they buy relatively few figures. Wargamers in where the market is (oooh! Controversial!!)

donald

[David O'Brien]

(the owner had no concept that a wargamer might buy 10 boxes of a single, needed set). O

Sounds as if they lack rudimentary knowledge but quite common with many types of shop. Shops that sell 28 mm figures seem to understand the hobby better in terms of numbers eg more orcs than wizard lords. I suppose selling ten boxes of Caesar figures is like selling a bit of a resin or wooden model boat or a third of a OO scale model loco or a small basic RC plane. Selling lots of little boxes of things not just 1/72nd scale figures but models like Oxford Diecast cars is not half as preferable as the big scale big box model kit that has the promise of instant riches and none of the chore of shuffling and tidying the pesky things up. The nouveau bigger market seems to be tattoos (not the Edinburgh type) or nail parlours with Costa bar attached. I am not sure where savvy model figure retailers come on the spectrum of niche shops. I would guess breadline as opposed to below the same for the non savvy and the BMW out front belongs to the wife who owns the nail parlours etc.

David

[Ochoin]

I am not sure
David

Yes, you're not.

I was speaking of our LHS which is a large 2 storied building filled with R/C, trains, models & lots of those small pesky boxes of 1/72 figures etc. There's enough trade to need 3-4 shop assistants on weekends.

And it's filled with customers too. I guess the owner may not be plastic figure savaay but she follows advice & seems really quite prosperous.

[Emperor]

Well there are shops for 28 mm figures, just I am not interested in 28mm...I like 1 72 figures scales since I grown up with it...
I also have made a network of people from world wide, who can bring me at least 5 boxes...

[vellek]

...which is the chance for smaller prouducers - especially of metal figures - that can fill these gaps with a in relation much smaller budget. Schilling, Schmaeling, Franznap - just to name a few. The only thing about it is the fact that their figures are more expensive then the plastic ones.

@Emperor
I appreciate what the M-A-C format brings to the table, but with the relatively high price of the Zvezda AoT plastic kits and the other plastic manufacturers now decreasing the number of figures/box, I started to look into metal figures. To be sure they are not as cheap as plastic, but the gap is closing. It was daunting to me at first with overseas shipping, and translating emails and currency. But the plain truth is that many smaller producers out there are doing interesting things and tweaking the "boring" subjects in 1/72. A lot of them, such as those named above, are regularly on this forum. It might be worth your time and hobby money to search them out. That's just one man's experience, of course.

[zirrian]

@Emperor
I appreciate what the M-A-C format brings to the table, but with the relatively high price of the Zvezda AoT plastic kits and the other plastic manufacturers now decreasing the number of figures/box, I started to look into metal figures. To be sure they are not as cheap as plastic, but the gap is closing. It was daunting to me at first with overseas shipping, and translating emails and currency. But the plain truth is that many smaller producers out there are doing interesting things and tweaking the "boring" subjects in 1/72. A lot of them, such as those named above, are regularly on this forum. It might be worth your time and hobby money to search them out. That's just one man's experience, of course.

Dunno about that decrease...Mars still includes 40+ minis in a box, Emhar's new boxes still have 40+ figures, apparently HaT's infantry sets are getting smaller - but look at them better. The Spanish line has 48 minis in it, without command. Both light and grenadier boxes have 32 minis, while command has 40. Obviously you need less light infantry and grenadiers, and the command is enough for a healthy number of units. I'm okay with that. Zvezda is entirely another matter. Their minikits are expensive. Good if you only need a single machine gun, but sometimes a full box for spares is a better choice.

[MicroWorld]

I'd like correct my previous message.
The first set for "Borodino" (#6808 "Russian line infantry") is almost ready:

(http://vk.com/wall-69585287_1101?offset=last&f=replies)

[KenzoSato]

Good, very good