Hat crowdfunding Nappy Prussians

[zulu`s 1000`s of em]

Mabo, it would not be right for me to comment on issues of Hat/Heat`s business without all the facts and the owners consent . But this has been explained in as much the crowdfunding runs parallel to the existing business, the Crowdfunding is being done at another factory and is a way of speeding up production of the sets people want the most, if they hit target they get made, if not they don`t . The existing business is still running as it always has, all be it slower than any of us would like, but that is down to a number of factors not just Hat.

[Zed1]

£6 a box, you may have a very long wait

Well.... how many years ago did HaT put the 'masters pictures' of that Landwehr on their website?
Five? Six? Seven?

Nevertheless, one thing is correct: if you want to get good Prussian Landwehr infantry today, you'd have to buy metal figures. But I'm still not too convinced about it, though the figures at least have a somewhat rugged look that meets the subject much better then that 'parade uniform' style of thing.
For 8 or 10 bucks, I'd have a package to store it in my bin, just in case. But for 15-20 bucks... I'd rather order a set of Alex' figures from Moscow.

When you're rather painting a handful of figures and not masses of them, one sprue would be enough. So people like me end up with tons of unused figures. In that case, metals or high-class resin figures are in fact cheaper. Perhaps 2-sprue boxes would be a better idea.

[zulu`s 1000`s of em]

My comment is a joke Zed1, lost in translation , but £6 a box you may have a long wait , means you have no chance of that ! ...and why to Hat hate ? Airfix promised 1/72 SAS about forty years ago, still waiting....and look down PSR`s list of promised/outstanding sets from all manufacturers many have sets that were promised ten years or more ago, why not complain about them for a change ?

[sansovino]

I have followed your discussion very long, before I decided to take part on it. I am waiting and hoping very long to get these prussians of Haet which are filling a gap in the segment of plastic soldiers. But I am very sceptical to Haets new offer of crowdfunding to such horrible prices:

Haet doesn´t give any notice when the figures will been produced and delivered.

Haet try nearly to redouble the prices for his sets which are good but only from time to time exceptional.

In contrast smaller producers have used the instrument of crowdfunding for very special figures for an estimated small community of collectors like the Persian Napoleonics of Westfalia Miniatures. And in contrast to Haet which has announced many new sets which aren´t been produced since 2009/10, Westfalia has really produced their announced figures in only some months. So I will believe Haet only after a proof that they are capable to produce their new figures in an acceptable time.

And I have to say that I am quite ignorant to their kind of moulds. I buy figures and not moulds. And if their moulds have a longer life, it´s only their gain and not mine. So I don´t buy too anymore Zvezda new figure-sets which are for me intolerable expensive - and beside the price worse than their older figures. There are so many wonderful figure-producers which are creating really exceptional figures where I understand and accept their higher prices.

And please nobody should tell me anything about inflation. There was no inflation in the last decade who justify 60-100 percent higher prices!

[marc zijp]

I tend to agree with you completely. I have my doubts too which causes my hesitations.
The relatively high price of the new Waterloo1815 French napoleonics is the reason why I haven't bought them yet btw.
Strelets is a good alternative these days. I tend to wait with patience for more new sets of them.

[zulu`s 1000`s of em]

We will be able to better guess time once the Unmarried Zulu`s arrive, but my previous comment still stands why the Hat hate ? Zvezda art of tactics figures 50p- £1 per figure , new sets from Waterloo, Caesar and Hat about 28/9 p per figure , resin figures often £2 per figure, no mater what material or who makes them you have to pay a sculptor, make a mould etc , Hat prices are in line with the market, ALL metal mould manufacturers have changed the configuration and numbers of figures in a set, so why is no one belly aching about the others ?

[zulu`s 1000`s of em]

You may also ask why the change has happened ? , because they are forced too, if what they were doing was working for them there would have been no change, it did not, so you either change or risk going out of business, please look at PSR list of manufacturers to see all the ones who are no longer in business, its a long list.

[sansovino]

Yes, I agree totally with you Marc! I hope like you still on other producers like Strelets which are becoming better and better.

Redbox have tried too to arise their box-prices with their first swiss-soldier-sets - same box price but only the half of figures - and had sold finally less boxes what I have heared from shop-keepers. And after this try they have returned to their former number of figures. I think that some producers are trying to arise their prices but they won´t have the expected sucess with it.

Like Marc I don´t have bought the new french Napoleonics of Waterloo which are also too expensive for me - besides their strange puppet-appearance. I presume to that their higher price was a result of their redesigning process after the critics of the first prototypes. I don´t see any redesign-process by Haet which wasn´t necessary. And their sculptor - I hope so - was already paid 2010 what make the higher price still less understandable.

I can accept that the community of 1/72 figures is decreasing and the producers have to arise their prices but it has to be make in a reasonable manner. These, who can effort any price for plastic figures, are still free to buy the new Haet figures. You will always find an example set which is still more expensive but I don´t orientate me never to the most expensive ones ... in contrast I look what I will get to a reasonable price-quality ratio...

And finally figure-production was always a process of new-comers and firms who were disappearing....
Eventually Haet should ameliorate their information- and selling-policy than only to arise their prices so high....

[zulu`s 1000`s of em]

To repeat myself, Hat have not put prices up, the 300 sets they have produced are ALL still at the original selling price. So No price increase in more than 15 years.

[zulu`s 1000`s of em]

If we don`t invest in the hobby why should anyone else ? do you want Hat to be a modern day Airfix, not producing anything new, just turning out the same old sets in rotation, its good business that way, sculptor paid for, mould paid for, artist/box art paid for etc etc, less work and more profit. Or do you want to see more new figures produced ? we the buying public will decide, I know my choice .

[Zed1]

We will be able to better guess time once the Unmarried Zulu`s arrive, but my previous comment still stands why the Hat hate ? Zvezda art of tactics figures 50p- £1 per figure , new sets from Waterloo, Caesar and Hat about 28/9 p per figure , resin figures often £2 per figure, no mater what material or who makes them you have to pay a sculptor, make a mould etc , Hat prices are in line with the market, ALL metal mould manufacturers have changed the configuration and numbers of figures in a set, so why is no one belly aching about the others ?

Not hate. Just criticism and a bit of sarcasm.
Maybe more people wanted that gum plastic for their figures. I really don't like it.
Maybe others have announced to bring out new sets years ago. This topic here is only about HaT, not them.
That I find these new HaT figures expensive doesn't mean that I don't find other manufacturers' products expensive as well. Zvezdas ATF-figures are a good example for overprizing.
If all manufacturers follow that trend, our hobby is getting much more expensive then we all were used to. Usually, people don't like that.
In my case, this means that I buy lesser figures. Question is what brings more money - selling many figures for price X- or lesser for X+. We shall see.

But I don't think that one could compare the numbers of figures that HaT sells with those sold by smaller metal figure manufacturers. If hardware and sculptor costs are the same, then a higher amount of sold sets will result in a lower amount of costs per figure. Therefore, l can accept higher prizes at small metal manufacturers much easier then in case of companies like HaT, Italeri or Zvezda.

So what about distribution? Will we find this and new HaT sets in shops anymore? Or will it all be direct distribution in the future?

[sansovino]

Zulu, you are free to help Haet with all your support and endless new messages. It´s your choice!
Only it doesn´t have to do anything with hate, if somebody is more sceptical about some new figure-evolutions. And like many of your examples, your comparison with the history of Airfix is more than weak. Not the clients, but the firm policy caused the decline of the producer.

It doesn´t make sense to announce many years sets - and to sculpt sets too - which aren´t going in production - its also for the collectors still more boring, because other producers doesn´t dare to produce a similiar set of the announced set. Examples: Haet will recognize that their 1815-french Napoleonics will been sold less after the recent new Waterloo-sets. The homepage of Haet is full of wishes since many years that Haet will produce finally the Prussian Landwehr, the Napoleonic Austrians and Russians, but they have decided instead to produce other new figures. It´s absolutly their right, but it´s blind to the real greater public interest of the missing sets. I presume that Napoleonic Russian or Austrian Infantry will been sold four- or ten times more than your beloved Zulus - a comparison which I don´t like really but has economical relevance.

[zulu`s 1000`s of em]

Zulus are the only set to make the crowdfunded target so far, sales speak for themselves. The Airfix comparison is far from weak it is very appropriate , if there were money in new sets Airfix would be making them, if there were money in new sets A call to arms would be making them, so to Emhar and others we could both list, they don`t , they just keep selling the sets they already have, why ? its about return on investment, like any business. So we can choose to support new initiatives or we can ultimately end up with a few manufacturers churning out the same old sets in rotation, if you and others do not want to buy, that is fair enough, but don`t blame Hat for wanting to see a return on their money invested up front, it is what every business in the world aims to do.

[sansovino]

To repeat myself, Hat have not put prices up, the 300 sets they have produced are ALL still at the original selling price. So No price increase in more than 15 years.

Zulu, look how "original selling prices" of Haet have developed - only few examples from the Haet-pricelists of 2013 and 2016 (in Euro):

8027 Austrian Infantry ------ 6,99 ----- 8,49
8066 Roman Aux. Cavalry -- 6,99 ----- 8,49
8099 Russian Militia ---------- 13,99 ----15,99
8105 French Limber ------------- 9,49 ----- 10,49
8175 Wurttemberg Cavalry ----- 9,99 ----- 11,29
8181 British 17th Lancers ------ 9,99 ----- 11,29
8191 Zulu -------------------------- 5,99 ----- 6,99
8197 Prussian Hussars ------ 9,99 ---- 11,29


I am wondering how some prices have developed different, but I understand the necessity to arise the prices - but the actual prices are certainly not the same original prices!

[zulu`s 1000`s of em]

Most are here in the UK the same , I cannot comment as I do not have knowledge of what the prices are on continental Europe.

[zulu`s 1000`s of em]

I am reliably informed the price increases you refer to were down to distributors, Hats price by and large have remained the same since 1995, there are some exceptions , but only those sets that were once code A and were switched to code B for example.

[sansovino]

Zulu, you are living obviously in an other world! The pricelists were sent from Haet and their mother company Faller. It doesn´t have to do anything with distributors!

Your hollow firm is not immaculate!
And price-rises happened since 1995! Be serious ....

I presume that some parts of the price-rises could have been caused from currency-changes but certainly not totally!

[zulu`s 1000`s of em]

I am quite confident of my facts , my source is very well informed of Hats pricing over the last twenty two years, with those sets released in the early years being the same today as they were in 1995 and that I can confirm from my own purchases Hats Prussian Hussars and lancers are still about £4 a box, the same as I paid in 1995 for them. The very specific prices you quote are not Hat increases . So maybe you and one or two others here should be saying well done to Hat for keeping their prices down for twenty two years , can you think of anything else that is the same price as 1995 ? and I will ask for the forth time on this thread ,why the Hat hate ? when I have shown that Hats prices for the new sets are in line with Waterloo ,Caesar and Zvezda, they have by and large held their prices down for twenty two years, have produced more than 300 sets in those Twenty two years and that is about 14 new sets a year on average, that is a record to be applauded don`t you think ?.

[sansovino]

I stop it. You are a good example for the new post-factual world where facts are replaced in favor of beliefs.
Nor I don´t hate Haet nor I am a member of its deep spiritual community... that is the last what I can and want to say...
And I have really documents, price-lists from Haet in contrast to your uncertain sources and beliefs.

[zulu`s 1000`s of em]

Good I was tiring of your nonsense.