Napoleonic 1/72 scale going..going..gone?

[Bessiere]

I have noticed since first getting in to collecting minis back 5 or 6 years ago that many of the plastic sets once common have become impossible to find at any price. Lots of important sets too such as the Zvezda Old Guard Grenadiers, the Strelets Allied Command and 1st Napoleon and staff sets and even Waterloo 1815 French foot dragoons or Zvezda Guard Cossacks. For a time you couldn't find their French Artillery either which has no equal at least in plastics.
Sure, there are metal 20mm but they are seemingly getting fewer and farther between as well. It troubles me as it seems to be a quick dropping off of all available sets with very little new work coming out, but French units in particular. I don't see that same issue with other scales, perhaps I am wrong but 28 mm always has nice new sets coming out but I'm less sure of 15 mm.
All credit to Massimo of Franznap and Strelets for their excellent new releases but it's the gradual disappearance of the not just the sets but manufacturers too.
Makes me feel like I got in to the hobby just barely in time to snag all those aforementioned sets and others before they disappeared forever. Treasure your 20mm as they will become more and more a rarity as time goes on. Other scales are more popular for gaming and so it goes. Going, going, how long before it really is gone? I do have a longing to have returned to modelling back in it's heyday of the early 2000's. Must've been an exciting time for the hobby. I suppose it reached a crescendo for the 200th anniversary of Waterloo in 2015 and I missed it. Timeliness has never been one of my attributes, ah well.
Cheers,
Bessiere

[Minuteman]

Makes me feel like I got in to the hobby just barely in time to snag all those aforementioned sets and others before they disappeared forever. Treasure your 20mm as they will become more and more a rarity as time goes on. Other scales are more popular for gaming and so it goes. Going, going, how long before it really is gone? I do have a longing to have returned to modelling back in it's heyday of the early 2000's. Must've been an exciting time for the hobby. I suppose it reached a crescendo for the 200th anniversary of Waterloo in 2015 and I missed it. Timeliness has never been one of my attributes, ah well.
Cheers,
Bessiere

I think what we have with this hobby, Bessiere, is a transition to favoured scales, and these now seem to be 28mm, 15mm (up to 18mm for some manufacturers) and 6mm. Our beloved 1/72 scale (20mm if you like) is falling away in popularity, partly because of problems with figure supply - as you mention - and partly because the wargames figure manufacturers (eg: Warlord, Perry) have chosen to go with 28mm as the scale of choice. That is fair enough, and 28mm has the benefits of 1/72 and also allows a bit more detail in the larger figures as well. And plastic 28mm figures are also reasonably economical.

Even in 'days of old', when there were far fewer figure manufacturers, 25mm was the preferred scale for 'serious' wargamers and collectors, and sometimes 30mm: the latter scale still has a niche in the market, and is so similar to 28mm that it is almost the same thing. So although the likes of Donald Featherstone fielded armies made of converted Airfix figures back in the 1960s and 70s, even then the trend was towards building metal armies made of fine models made by Miniature Figurines, Hinchliffe, Lamming and so on. Some of these are still in production - MiniFigs are made by Partizan Press for instance - but I suspect that true 25mm is now also a niche in this hobby, as is 1/72.

To some extent I am not overly concerned about this. I chose to go - mainly - down the 1/72 route a long time ago, driven then by the 'golden era' when HaT and others were pouring out new sets, and the choice was therefore becoming greater by the year. The other impetus has been cost and weight; plastic figures remain cheaper than metals and are easier to store. And I also enjoy the challenge of converting plastics, possible with some 28mm but much more difficult with metal figures.

So... we are a niche, and maybe in 20-30 years time a very small niche in this hobby. But let us be pleased that we are where we are, still with a wide variety of sets available; the likes of HaT and Zvezda are, for different reasons, no longer the key players that they were, but both companies still re-release figures. The secret is to buy when they are available and plan ahead - hence the stash that some of us horde in garages, lofts etc!

[k.b.]

I understand fully what you mean Bessiere and have often felt the same. How could companies abandon us 1/72 addicts in our favourite Napoleonic period? Obviously there was a motive and we need to fully understand that motive if we are to address it. Was it plain and simply due to a lack of profit? Surely not! The Zvezda range was extraordinary…. they had raised the bar to an all time high. Admittedly some of their new figures were getting a bit big (dare I say it almost the old 25mm scale). I’m thinking about the Saxon Garde du Corp, even the British Light infantry, from Italeri by the way, to name just a couple. I don’t have the answers as to why they all of a sudden turned to their smaller packs!
As you rightly mentioned Franznap (Francesco Messori not Massimo, by the way), but also Massimo Costa at Black Watch both need to be congratulated for their heroical efforts to increase supply of Napoleonics in 1/72, albeit in metal, and not plastic. Were the moulds for plastic miniatures becoming prohibitively expensive? I think not - because that was how The Perry brothers had opted to revolutionise/cheapen 28mm collecting. Admittedly their plastic is a harder plastic than the one being used for 1/72. But nonetheless they still use plastic.
Another thing we need to consider is how Wolfgang and his friends are able to reproduce such gigantic dioramas in 1/72 scale? Am thinking of the Crobern diorama which took diorama making to a whole new level. A scale of 1:1. Mind blowing !?! How were they able to do that with limited supplies of 1/72 Napoleonics available? Did they buy the last remaining Zvezda ranges or did/do they make their own figures? I haven’t been to the museums nor been able to buy their books to see the figures up close but I have the impression they are casting their own figures or now using Franznap’s and Black Watch’s metal ranges.
I would love to hear from Wolfgang, Francesco and Massimo who sadly, by the way, seem to be posting less and less here on Bennos.
These are my initial thoughts on the subject but I will definitely be back after hearing more comments.

[Ochoin]

For me, the hobby has been a wonderful thing. This is, BTW, not an announcement of my imminent demise. It's just Bessiere's OP has sparked some nostalgia & some introspection.

I began before the Golden Age when there were a small handful of new releases in a year. We seem to be back at the beginning now. I used to wonder, at the time, how the incredible output of the Golden Age could be sustained?
And the answer was it couldn't. Like most things in life it comes down to economics. If there were a huge number of buyers demanding 1/72 plastic Napoleonic sets, there would be manufacturers producing them.
The problem is that "we", never numerous, have dwindled in numbers and our buying power has correspondingly dwindled.
Maybe 3D printing will somehow save something from the wreckage. I don't know but I'm grateful for the wonderful figures I've bought, painted & gamed with. I'm sad that sets I decided not to buy at the time (stupid decision!!) are no longer obtainable. I'm sad that certain periods will never reach the breadth of Napoleonics or WW2 - SYW. But I know I have a small number of friends who are committed to the scale & a larger number here at Bennos also like-minded.

donald

[MikeRC97]

I too lament the dwindling number of new releases in Napoleonic sets in this scale.
I think the reason is that up until 10 years ago, 1/72 was the least expensive option for the most popular wargaming periods (WW2, Napoleonic, Ancients). 15mm and 28mm have always been more popular but up until about 10 years ago those scales were almost exclusively metal, which made them more expensive.
That’s why so many gamers turned to 1/72 - and of course the nostalgic factor for gamers likes myself that remember those old Airfix sets of their youth.
But with the rise of cheaper plastic sets in 28mm from Warlord, Perry, etc. and cheap-ish plastic 15mm sets from Battlefront (still expensive), PSC and Zvezda, 1/72 lost its big advantage.
15mm has the advantage of requiring less space which was another advantage 1/72 had over 28mm.
So I think it comes down to that really, 1/72 lost its “white space” so to speak.
I treasure all of my wonderful Italeri and Zvezda Napoleonic sets in the “one true scale” and I’m just happy we had a golden age.

[blacksmith]

In my case I've never been quite fond of Napoleonics. However I do love Fantasy, Dark Ages and modern in this scale. Actually, I'm getting rid of all my stuff in 28mm in favour of 1/72, and the only reason I'm keeping my 15mm stuff is because it is sci-fi.

[Bessiere]

Thank you all for your replies. I returned to the hobby after a 50 year absence but my choice of scale was really dictated by 2 things; my old Airfix sets I fondly remembered and collected and wide variety of units available in plastic. As Mark mentioned it has been the gaming market primarily driving the new products output and 15 and 28mm address different needs and do it well. I think many will agree that 1/72 offers the best of both worlds making detailed painting possible while occupying a minimal amount of space.
I wrote the OP as a bit of a lament but it's great to know that I am a member of an exclusive community that places very high value on our preferred scale. As k.b. sagely noted it's also the scale of choice for diorama makers and thank you for the correction of Francesco not Massimo.
As Donald states 3d printing may very well be the key to sustaining our little niche. The people at Spiera have been excellent to work with on getting the exact size wanted and I'm looking forward to painting their new Cuirassier casualty figures currently en route. There are amazing possibilities using digital sculpting software for new figures and variations on them. So long as there is a steady market for our scale someone will fill that role I am sure. After a little deeper thought in the subject I actually feel far more optimistic. We will experience a big change in manufacture but the opportunities for our scale are becoming better than ever.
Cheers,
Bessiere

[Bessiere]

In my case I've never been quite fond of Napoleonics. However I do love Fantasy, Dark Ages and modern in this scale. Actually, I'm getting rid of all my stuff in 28mm in favour of 1/72, and the only reason I'm keeping my 15mm stuff is because it is sci-fi.

The Dark Alliance sets have certainly made their mark, even I bought some for use with a DND board game. Fantasy and WW2 are large enough markets to sustain more variations in scale. Napoleonics did see their peak come and go for our scale though, at least for plastic sets as we've come to know them. I can see where ordering exact numbers of poses for printing would be far more efficient and hopefully getting less expensive as it becomes more popular. It's interesting for sure to be living during a period of such fast transitions in technology and their effects on the market. Many of us may be traditionalists but to continue we're all going to need to be more tech savy and proactive in seeing products we want manufactured. That gives me an idea of running some polls to see what figures would be most desirable.
Cheers,
Bessiere

[Bill Slavin]

I appreciate your lament, Bessiere, and, like you, returned to gaming late and gravitated to 1/72 because that was what I collected as a kid. WWII originally (maybe 20 years ago) Napoleonics came even later, but even then they seemed widely available, not like now.
I think the disappearance of the hobby store has contributed to that, at least in my part of the world, but again that was probably more a symptom than a cause. The newer and more popular scales, especially 28mm, really put the nail in the coffin, and they are a beautiful scale, although too large to interest me and the scale of gaming I like to do! I would think online buying as well, pushing aside the more established 1/72 manufacturers that had traditional outlets nailed down.
I do agree that 3D printing will provide us with the option to continue to collect, as once the templates are out there they can serve at any scale. Maybe we will see a different golden age where all scales are available in the future.
In the meantime, there is a whole generation with failing eye sight and collections they will never be able to paint looking to off load their old 1/72’s. (Someone contacted me the other day with over 10,000 - I limited my buying spree to 2,000 with future options!) Unfortunately for the sellers, all the 1/72 buyers are losing their eyesight about the same time!
Best wishes,
Bill

[Peter]

Interesting conversation! Only thing I want to add is that I see the same problem in scale 1/32 (54 mm). The last companies I know who made this scale, Italeri, Revell, Waterloo1815 (I love to have the Custer sets), all stopped producing just like the 1/72 scale figures.

Most of the figures in this scale I find on the second hand market (for the really old sets). I paint these figures because of my eyesight that is not anymore as it was when I was younger. And I have figures in scale 1/72 for the next 500 years.

[Kaiphranos]

I think I must be of a different generation than most of the esteemed members of this forum... I was a kid with esoteric historical interests and a limited budget just at the right time to be caught up in the 1/72 "boom" that seemed to be going on in the 2000's-2010's. It is a little disappointing that the flow of new sets seem to have slowed (and with many of them being retreads of WWII subjects that I don't find of much interest), but what concerns me most for the future of this hobby right now is Russia's senseless war in Ukraine, since so many manufacturers have ties to one country or the other.